tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN June 21, 2012 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
hollande publicly said he was upset by this. the tweet's still up there. the press has taken to calling her the rottweiler valerie carried out a two-year secret affair with hollande. we do love the french though. tonight, jack osbourne, the prime-time exclusive. the shocking discovery he has ms. plus, dr. sanjay gupta gives jack advice for fighting the disease. also, witness for the defense jerry sandusky could learn his fate at any moment. i'll talk to the man would tells the story you haven't heard yet till now. and trayvon martin's killer tells his story in his own words. >> he said, you got a problem now. and then he was here. and he punched me in the face. >> george zimmerman's attorney just met with him in jail. now mark o'meara talks to him exclusively. and only in america. the shocking video.
taunting a grandmother. i'll tell you what i think should happen to them. this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. sandusky's fate in the hands of 12 people. we'll bring you the latest on that. also, the clearest look yet at the night george zimmerman shot trayvon martin. we'll begin tonight with my prime-time exclusive with jack osbourne who's just revealed he's been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. jack, welcome. you're alive. >> i am alive. >> i know you're fed up with people basically say jack osbourne's on death's door. >> yes. >> i took a call from your mother. obviously, a long-time friend of mine. appeared with her on "america's got talent" for years. a few weeks ago. she started doing a preamble then she burst into tears. and she told me what had happened to you. i could tell in that moment what a for her whether a cataclysmic
moment it was. 26-year-old boy, a son, had been diagnosed with this awful illness. tell me how you reacted when you heard. >> it was really weird. when i started showing symptoms, i was away work -- i was working. i was at home. i was telling lisa. she was sending me stuff. >> your wife? >> yeah. and i saw one thing. it said, you know, loss of vision could be connected with ms. and at that point, i just stopped reading. like, not doing this. when i got home, my vision had worsened. then i went to the hospital. they began running tests. that's when the real conversation started coming up about this either could be a stroke or it could be multiple sclerosis. >> when you hear those words, what do you think? >> i got a little emotional. because at that point you don't know. you don't -- unless you have
multiple sclerosis or someone you are related to or close to has multiple sclerosis, you really don't know what it actually is because it's so strange in how the disease manifests itself. it's very different with everyone. i got scared. i instantly thought i was going to end up in a wheelchair. you start thinking about richard pryor and things like that. like, oh, i just got a death sentence, this is great. but through educating myself and speaking with doctors, you realize it's actually -- it's not as bad in some capacities as people would think. >> how are you feeling now? >> i feel fine. my vision is slowly coming back in my right eye. >> you had this awful day when you had a little dot. then it became this cigar-sized dot. before you know it, you're blind. >> my vision had completely gone. now it looks a bit foggy. time will tell how much my vision will improve or not. so it's kind of -- you have to wait till the scarring settles in and kind of go from there.
>> your family has had a lot of ups and a lot of downs. your mother fought cancer. that nearly killed her. your father had a terrible accident. i remember talking to him about that. you've been -- some people think you've been cursed. think you've managed to come back from all these things. what is the family attitude to this? how have your mom and dad been? >> i think my mom and dad took the nurse far worse than i did. they were in a parental kind of way thought, is it our fault, what could we have done? things like that. they have a tendency to do that a lot about everything. >> your mom is an emotional woman. >> she is. >> good and bad. let's watch a clip of her on "the talk" because she did get emotional when she was talking about you. >> jack -- will be here on wednesday to talk about his diagnosis.
but he's great. he's doing really, really good. and i want to thank everyone for all their good will and love they've sent. >> you think about your mom, she's like the lioness and this is one of her own. that she's feeling is very acutely. i bumped into her at the airport a week after we spoke. she got all emotional then. i could tell for her this is a nightmare. >> that was, what, on monday, five weeks after she's known. she's having a hard time with it i think. so it's -- >> your sisters? >> they're -- you know, they're very supportive. they're very -- i don't quite think they completely understand the parameters of the illness. they're not thinking i'm going to drop dead or i'm going to be in a wheelchair. so they're -- but they're being equally supportive in their own ways. >> you feel like you've had symptoms for three or four years looking back.
what kind of things? >> i guess the most prominent symptom was my legs went numb for two months, something like that. i just thought i had a pinched nerve. i couldn't -- to the touch, i could feel my legs were there. but it was very -- they had a numb sensation. they were sensitive to hot and cold. and i just completely disregarded it. i've had issues with, you know, my bladder. bowels. every -- things like that. so it's really -- and if you'd look at the symptoms of m.s., it is so random. it's really quite remarkable how someone figured out that's actually related to one thing. >> your fiance, not your wife. mistakingly earlier. lisa. you just had this little baby girl. she's 2 months old. beautiful little girl. you're on top of the world. like nothing could be going better for you. there she is in your arms. then this happens. huge blow to you as a small up and coming family.
>> yeah, lisa, she's incredibly optimistic. just in her nature she is. she's very caring, very nurturing. she's like, hey, let's -- this is not so great news but let's figure out a way to make this a good thing. and, you know, the prescribed lifestyle with having m.s. is minimize stress, exercise regularly, eat right, and, you know, get a lot of sleep. >> the best thing -- >> yeah, like that is the best kind of recipe to live by for anyone. >> you're a positive guy. i've known you a long time. you are a positive guy by nature. you're a fighter like all osbournes. to you still have moments though when you look in the mirror any morning you think why me, why now? >> it's usually at night when i'm injecting myself with a giant needle full of, you know, full of stuff that's supposed to keep me out a wheel chair. i've had a couple moments where i'm a bit like, it's this for the rest of my life or till they come up with something better. >> you've been doing lots of big
tv work. "god bless ozzy osbourne," brilliant documentary about your dad. you signed this nbc show deal. they pulled the plug after this. >> yes. >> what was the show? >> i believe the title when i was involved was "stars on stripes." >> you would have been doing what? >> it was a -- kind of a military-style show, action/adventure, things like that. sent on missions. >> sharon is livid about this. she said you were told effectively by e-mail they were dumping you. the only reason is because they couldn't insure you or what was the reason? >> it was -- well, i was never told. no one ever wants called me and said, listen, you know, cut to the chase, can you or can't you do this? now, doctors tell you not to smoke. how many people smoke? right? millions. now, i'm not saying -- i'm not a doctor, i can't say if that's true or not.
doctors were saying i can't do this because of these following reasons. but no one ever asked me, can you do this? i was told, you know, we made them aware very early on what was going on. i was -- listen, i'm not upset about how -- that i'm not on the project. projects come and go. it's just the entertainment industry. what's happens. i'm upset how i was kind of just cast aside like, all right, next, not even given an option to, you know -- >> does that make you feel concerned for your professional future? do you fear that others may follow suit? >> to a degree. you know, a doctor who, you know, who's gone to school and studied medicine will tell you, you can't do this, you can't do that. just my nature, when i'm told i can't do something, i'm determined to then do it. because i want to prove people wrong, you know, and they -- i was going -- i was training, you know, very aggressively for the show. i was doing everything i
normally was doing. and i was doing it fine. there was no -- no proof that i was incapacitated -- >> it does seem, i got to say, pretty callous. you look perfectly fit now despite this. it should be down to you to decide i think whether you're down to do a tv show. >> the main argument was i was uninsurable and i wouldn't be allowed to be in the armed forces anyway with m.s. and my, you know, response to that was put me through the standard, you know, armed forces employment fitness test. >> one person who will know the answer to some of these questions is sanjay gupta. our medical expert. i know you're fed up with experts who don't know youput ing words into your mouth. let's talk to him after the break. ♪
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for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. jack osbourne's back with me now in his first prime-time interview since he was diagnosed with m.s. dr. sanjay gupta joins us from atlanta. longtime friend of the family. jack's a bit sick and tired of latering people who don't know him or the family pontiicate about how he's feeling. put it in perspective for me. what is m.s. in its simplicity disscripptive terms? and what kind of life can jack now expect, given he's 26 years old?
>> piers, thanks for having me. jack, it's great to speak to you. i really admire your attitude. you're such a young guy. i loved you turning no into yes. overcoming barriers. it's great to hear from you. m.s. is a chronic disease. it affects a couple million people around the world. the best way to sort of think about it is your immune system for some reason thinks parts of your central nervous system don't belong there. so it attacks parts of the central nervous system at various times. it might be the brain. it might be the spinal cord. as jack was alluding to earlier. jack described this beautifully. you could have, you know, blurriness in the eye at some point. and that goes away and you absolutely have no symptoms for a long time. then you might have some numbness in your foot. this is a disease that is really characterized by changes in space in terms of where the lesions are located and also time.
that unpredictability jack was describing is exactly what happens. piers, to your second question, quickly. the most common form of m.s. is something known as relapsing and remitting. comes and goes. that's what that means. the vast majority of those people do really well. and they're doing better than ever before because of the medications, the therapeutics, the things that are now available that weren't available even five or ten years ago. >> good example of that is montel williams who i interviewed recently. a clip of him talking to me about his battle with m.s. he looked in great shape. i know, jack, you've met up with him recently. >> when i say i changed my diet, piers, i'm telling you. 75% of what i'm eating is liquefied. why? because i found out from the food and drug administration the national institute of health, that vegetables and fruits are nature's natural anti-inflammatories. what's the biggest nemesis a
person who has m.s.? inflammation. i need to fight inflammation in my body every day. this isn't something i've done for three months. for seven years, my friend. >> encouraging. watching someone like montel. clearly someone you can't attack quite aggressively. which questions would you have for sanjay now that you've had time to think about this for a few weeks? endless people telling you? >> i think my biggest -- from what i've been researching is stem cell research. i've heard, you know, i've seen things online, i've heard people talk on the radio about they are curing cases of m.s. with, you know, with stem cells. but there is the -- i don't know the correct terminology, but isn't it the blood/spine barrier? like you'd have to theoretically inject the stem cells into the spine? >> good question. the blood/brain barrier is the term for that.
but there are different types of m.s. jack, i'll apologize -- you'll forgive me for telling you stuff you already know. with your particular form this relapsing/remitting, it means you may have a plaque or some lesion at some point in your brain or spinal cord that then goes away. and maybe some point way down the line it appears somewhere else. so using stem cells with your form of m.s. at least initially probably doesn't -- it doesn't make a lot of sense and probably won't have a lot of benefit because you're sort of getting better quite often on your own. if it progressed into what is known as progressive m.s., so in that case, the lesions aren't going away. they're just sort of more accumulating, then you're absolutely right. if you were going to think about a stem cell therapy, and they're getting better at this, you would have to inject it probably directly into the spinal fluid. it's called a cerebral spinal fluid. let them heal those parts of the central nervous system that have been affected by the m.s. this is technology that is still
being worked on. if that were ever the case and you needed it, maybe science will progress to the point where it's better than it is now. >> and, sanjay, just quickly, there are lots of urban myths already erupting about jack's condition. some put out there by his mom, who's obviously blaming herself. she's worried that she may have done something in her life which may have affected jack after he was born. also, her brother has m.s. is it hereditary? obvious one, could any jack's well-documented substance abuse, could that trigger something like this? just give me quick responses to those. >> yeah, it was so hard to watch sharon like that. i'm such a big fan of hers. i'll tell you quickly, it's -- they think of it as something where you may be born with a predisposition to m.s., then something triggers it. there's nothing sharon could have known or probably done. if she had an infection when she was pregnant, perhaps. it's not something you can control for. hereditarywise, while the
general population may be around 1% if you have a first degree relative it can go up to maybe 2% or 3%. some degree but not much. with regard to substance abuse, we don't know what causes m.s., piers so it's very hard to say if somebody has -- is predisposed to it, what's going to trigger it necessarily. i wouldn't place a lot of faith in that either, piers. >> yeah, and, jack, i mean, look. looking at you, knowing the family, i'm sure you'll give this everything you've got to attack it. the prognosis should be pretty good actually. >> i've been told my all my doctors if you're going to have m.s., now's the time to have it. because there are, you know, i think two or three new drugs coming out on the market within the next six months. and from talking with montel, he was telling me about all this stuff that's, you know, a few years down the line. it's -- i do believe that there will be a solution in sight within my lifetime. >> well, best of luck with it jack. >> thank you. >> thanks for coming in. send your mom my love.
sharon if you're watching, i'm sure you are don't worry, he's going to be okay, he's an osbourne and they're fighters and winners. sanjay, thank you very much for that expert analysis which i'm sure jack found fascinating. thank you to you both. coming up, today's big revelations in the trayvon martin case.
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i grab my gun. i aimed it at him. fired one shot. he jumped straight back and said, you got me. or you got me, you got it, something like that. >> george zimmerman's account of the death of trayvon martin. the police interrogation. comes as another new tape was released. talking through what he says happened. i talked to zimmerman's lawyer
mark o'meara in a moment. first, the attorney for the martin family. what is your reaction to all the tape material that's come out today? >> well, piers, we're still trying to sort through it all. but the biggest thing we think is what he wrote that night in his written statement, in his own hand, in his own words, where he put that he got out of that vehicle, that night on february 26th, to look at street signs so he can give the police dispatcher his location. and it goes completely contradictory to what we heard on that objective 911 tape. when he said, oh, he's getting away. and then he pursued trayvon martin. and the 911 operator said, are you pursuing him? we don't need you to do that. and so clearly when he writes
his statement, piers, why does he not tell the truth on the statement why he got out of that car? if we can't believe what he said from day one, how can we believe anything else after he talked to people and talked to lawyers and talked to family members? so that's important. his credibility is the issue here. and that's the most important thing. because trayvon martin isn't here to tell us his version of what happened. >> and in terms of his credibility, george zimmerman's -- i guess his credibility's been severely damaged. his own attorney i'm going to talk to soon conceded that. by the revelations about the discussions over money between him and his wife, which has led to his wife being charged and perjury allegations and so on. so in terms of that significance to how much we should believe in what george zimmerman says in totality, how important is that do you think? >> well, i think that's the crux of the matter, piers.
it is all about credibility. you got to tell the truth because if you don't tell the truth, if you lie about one thing, how can we believe that you're not going to lie about another thing? and that seems to be a pattern. everybody's going to have to look at this for what it is. you got objective evidence. and then you've got george zimmerman versions. you put them up against one another. and we know that written statement that he did that night doesn't match up to that 911 tape. and there are other inconsistencies. when we see the lie, we got to call it out and say, there's his credibility again. and that's the important thing. >> when he's telling the police at the scene what he says happened, he referred to a witness in the house directly next to where they are apparently grappling. and he says this. let's hear a clip. >> only had a small portion of
my head on the concrete. so i try to squirm off the concrete. and when i did that, somebody here opened the door. and i said, help me, help me. and they said, i'll call 911. i said no, help me, i need help. and i don't know what they did. but that's when my jacket moved up. i had my firearm on my right side hip. my jacket moved up. and he saw it. i feel like he saw it. he looked at it. he said, you're going to die tonight, [ bleep] and he reached for it but he reached -- like i felt his arm going down to my side. and i grabbed it. and i just grabbed my firearm and i shot him. one time. >> benjamin krupp, do you know who that witness could be? has that person come forward, made any statements? >> i don't know. again, i haven't had a chance to
vet out his video statements fully. but certainly the police department, the lead investigator, detective sir ringo, as well as special prosecutor's office, they looked at everything. they don't believe george zimmerman's version. you know, you got so many inconsistent statements that people are going to have to look at his credibility when you face objective evidence. and common sense, piers. this is a neighborhood watch person who's lived in this neighborhood for three years. and he tells the police dispatcher that he has to get out to look at a street sign. there are only three streets in this whole gated complex. that he has patrolled. and he's lived there for three years. it doesn't pass the common sense test. and the witness's statements and versions don't go consistent with george zimmerman. that's a problem. we know he has a credibility issue. these witnesses don't have a dog in this fight. they don't have anything to gain
one way or the other. george zimmerman has everything to gain because he's on trial for murdering an unarmed teenager. consider this, piers, if you reverse this situation, and you had trayvon martin telling the police and america this version, would trayvon martin not be convicted of murder? that's the crux of the matter. equal justice. that's all trayvon parent's want. >> benjamin krupp, as always, thank you very much for joining me. >> thank you, piers. >> george zimmerman's attorney just spoke to his client in jail. now mark owe merah is here to talk to me exclusively. [ male announcer ] when this hotel added aflac
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he was about where you were. i said, no, i don't have a problem. i went to go grab my cell phone. i left it in a different pocket. i looked down at my pant pocket. said, you got a problem now. and then he was here. he punched me in the face. zimmerman says it was self-defense. zimmerman's defense attorney
mark o'meara. pretty dramatic stuff has come out today. what is the purpose of putting this all out now? >> well, the judge said last week that the information was going to come out. the real question is when we were going to get it out. as we've done many times in this case, when george acknowledged his apology to the martin family, when he acknowledged what happened at the bond hearing and now acknowledging his very own statements, we wanted to get them out. >> benjamin krupp, who i just interviewed, was pretty strident in saying it's riddled with inconsistencies. he cites in particular what we see in his description of these tapes today, george zimmerman. saying it is reason he got out of the car was to check the street sign. he says there are only three street signs.
it doesn't pass the commonsense test. secondly it contradicts the now infamous audio tape that we first heard when all this happened. which has him clearly in pursuit of trayvon martin. what do you say to that? >> truly not at liberty to do an analysis of the evidence. my only suggestion would be this is now another chapter of the evidence. we've certainly not seen what the defense intends to present. i'm just hoping that people will take an open view, wait till all the evidence is in, before they make a decision. >> how much of a problem is it for you? we discussed this the other night. this issue of the perjury claims now against george zimmerman and his wife over this conversation they had from when he was in
jail talking to his wife about the amount of money they had, which clearly -- what they said in court is not what the truth is. when you look at this video today, it all comes down to whether you believe george zimmerman. how much of a problem is it that his credibility is now being damaged? >> as we've discussed, his credibility was certainly affected by the fact he standed mute when his wife said something which turned out to be a misrepresentation to the court about the funds. they're going to have to deal with that. that rehabilitation is going to have to occur. however, we have to keep in mind as we review his credibility what his credibility attends to and what it doesn't or isn't necessarily for. and all the objective evidence think, once it's all out, is going to be another focus that people need to look at. so you need to look at the forensic evidence. the injuries to both of the parties. the witness statement. the tape that talks about -- or on it has the person screaming
for help for more than 45 seconds. i think when you look at all -- some, which is the way it's supposed to happen, that the attacks on mr. zimmerman's credibilities are going to pale in comparison to the undeniable objective evidence. >> the witness mr. zimmerman describes in the video today from the property directly adjoining where this incident finally took place, do you know if that witness has come forward and made a statement that corroborates what george is saying? >> that witness has made a statement. i don't want to talk, again about that evidence. that witness has been identified and a statement has been given. >> i mean that could be crucial, couldn't it? because it's a direct eyewitness to the actual fight. >> i believe that is going to be a crucial piece of evidence when it is fully vetted out. >> you've spoken to george today i believe after all this
material was released. how would you describe his mood? >> well, multifaceted. he's very concerned about himself. of course doesn't like to be in jail. understands why he's there again. very, very concerned about shelly and the position that she put herself in or the circumstances put her in. however, i think that he is happy in the sense that more evidence is getting out. and what he really wants is for all the evidence to get out so that when people make their decisions, again, they can sort of make it not from a bias perspective, but from an informed perspective. >> i mean, a cynic would look at the way that he describes what happens and say, well, look, this guy is a neighborhood watch official. he's been doing it for years. if he had just killed a teenager, under whatever the real circumstances are, this is the kind of story he would have constructed to cover himself
under the "stand your law" law. >> well, agreed. however, remember, he did those statements before he was aware of any other evidence. so when he came up with that statement, he came up with the statement not knowing whether or not there were half a dozen eyewitnesses watching every move that was made by both of the parties. so if you're going to say that he has a credibility issue, you also have to look at the statement in the context of everything else that came out that he was not aware of. if you look at it from that perspective, his statements both that night and the following four or five days, all of which were given voluntarily. he did everything the police did. when you look at the statements in that context, it gives a more rounded perspective. and there's nothing that conflicts with what mr. zimmerman said. now, are all of his statements completely in lock step with each other? absolutely not. and i would suggest to you that if they were, that that would suggest that they were made up,
because, piers, if i was to ask you a statement, five different times, and asked you about an event that happened, you would give me statements in response that are somewhat different for each and every event. we explain away the inconsistencies when we need to. >> as always, thank you for joining me. i appreciate it. >> sure. next, jerry sandusky awaits his verdict. he'll have to wait at least one more day. the jury's just finished deliberating. i'll talk to one of his good friends who tells a very different story than what you've heard so far. [ female announcer ] research suggests the health of our cells plays a key role
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boat protection people love. now, that's progressive. call or click today. we continue with the sandusky trial. the jury will be back tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. joining me now is tom klein. mr. klein, i suppose the most dramatic development today was matt sandusky, jerry sandusky's adopted son, came forward, saying he too was a victim of abuse at the hands of jerry sandusky. what was your reaction and your client's reaction to that bombshell as it turned out to be?
>> piers, i was just going to use the same term you used. it was a bombshell. apparently mr. sandusky's son, adopted son, matt, was actually talking to the prosecutors. that was the reason. so it's believed sandusky didn't take the stand in his own defense. so it was a dramatic development both in the courtroom and outside of the courtroom today. >> how do you feel the trial has gone in term also of your client's interest and those of the other young people who came forward who claimed they've been abused as children? >> well, i've been in the courtroom every day, from the opening statements, until the end of the closing arguments and the jury charge. i saw every witness testify. there was a mountain of evidence that was produced by the prosecution which was reviewed by the prosecution today.
what i saw from the defense was largely an attempt to create a conspiracy theory. which basically boiled down to everyone. from the police to the prosecutors to the lawyers like myself to the media. everyone had conspired and in some way had created and concocted a story which influenced eight young men from coming forward and telling this story. i don't think it sells very well. mr. amendola on behalf of mr. sandusky told this jury that the prosecution case just doesn't make sense. and it seemed to me as an observer, not a casual observer, but an observer who had every like of testimony that it was quite the opposite. >> thomas kline, thank you very much. sandusky didn't take the stand but his good friend, dr. james martin, did. and he joins me tonight. mr. martin, you've been a staunch defender of jerry
sandusky. you've testified on his behalf earlier this week. why are you so convinced, given the mountain of evidence to the contrary, that he is innocent of ever abusing a child? >> well, the jerry sandusky i knew and have come to know over the past 28 years spent his life trying to help kids overcome their circumstances. and i cannot imagine a situation where he would do any of the alleged things that have been accused of him. this is a guy who spent his life, built his reputation, helping kids overcome their circumstances. i can't imagine him doing any of those things. >> i mean, would you ever have naked showers with boys of 12, 13, 14? >> i certainly wouldn't now. you know, i was a wrestler here at penn state. i do recall, when we showered after practices, we showered all together in a big room. it just wasn't a big thing. now, i will tell you, growing up, not having done that in a
long time, you know it would seem a little bit odd to me to be showering with other people. like athletes do on a regular basis. i'm not giving -- or providing any excuse for that. but i can certainly see where that wouldn't seem all that unusual. >> but for a man of jerry sandusky's age to be doing that, did it not make you think this is weird or whatever was really going on, whatever side of the coin you believe, it's an odd practice for a man of that age to be -- >> i would agree with that. i think a man of that age having showers with young men is not appropriate, but that's not a criminal act as far as i know. >> do you feel that he's going to be acquitted? >> i really have no idea. i think there's a lot of people confused and i've heard the testimony, and really, the reporting in this case, at least in my opinion, has been very one-sided and i think a lot of people are really confused
because what's been reported is not characteristic with jerry's reputation in this area. >> you yourself stayed at jerry and dottei sandusky's house, he showered you with gifts, a watch, a photo album and a poem. i would put to you this is not normal behavior. what did you make of it? did you ever see anything you thought was a little odd? >> i don't think there's anything wrong with those behaviors. you know, jerry is a very emotional guy and he likes people and he did that on a regular occasion, gave people gifts and that's one of the ways that he showed that he cared about people. you know, a guy in how many bowls gets a watch, gets clothes from different companies and he can't wear all that stuff and it was his way to show people that he cared about them. he gave me some of knows gifts and i never saw any behavior that i ever really questioned or
thought was really suspicious. and i've spent quite a bit of time around him as a person as well as with the second mile kids. the jerry sandusky that i knew and i saw, i cannot imagine him doing the things that have been accused. >> did you know matt sandusky, his adopted son? >> yeah, i knew matt fairly well. i remember when jerry was trying to adopt him and all the struggles that he went through with matt's mom to try to get him adopted to help him overcome his circumstances which were not very good. >> so are you as shocked as everybody else that he now is making it clear that he was abused by jerry sandusky or claims to have been? >> i'm not all that shocked by a kid who at the beginning of the trial -- the end of the trial is against 4i78. that doesn't say a whole lot to his emotional stability. i'm a bit surprised that he would do that for a guy that
stuck his neck out and tried to make him into a person or give him a chance at life beyond what he was going to have, yeah, i'm disappointed at that. a.m. i shocked? i'm not super shocked. jerry was dealing with kids with troubled backgrounds. these kids don't always tell the truth or straight story and they change camps, obviously, on a regular basis. so that doesn't provide a whole lot of credibility what he's doing when you're changing your mind over a week period of time who you're going to support. >> if jerry sandusky is as innocent as you think he is, why did this defense put up this strange claim that he suffered from this syndrome called histrionic personality disorder? >> i don't claim to understand the rationale behind the attorney's reactions. jerry sandusky is a great guy,
if if he's committed these acts, he should be guilty of them and charged. i just cannot image him doing those things. and it was the jerry sandusky that i knew and have come to know over the 28-year period of time. >> dr. martin, i appreciate you joining me today. thank you very much. >> you're welcome. coming up next, only in america takes on a school bus police who tormented a 68-year-old grandmother. bayer advanced aspirin. in fact, in a recent survey, 92% of people who tried it said they would buy it again. visit fastreliefchallenge.com today for a special trial offer.
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for to be the's only in america, school bus bullies, it's the shocking videos that's enraged millions of americans. middle school students, children, vigorously tormenting a school bus monitor. the victim of that crude abase a grandmother. she sat utterly defenseless as kids ridiculed her with outbursts like this. >> you're so fat. you take up the whole entire seat. you don't have a whole family because they killed themselves.
>> these bullies in rochester new york, never let up, even as the poor woman cried. here's what she said later about her appalling experience. >> i was trying to just ignore them, hoping they would go away, and it doesn't work. trust me. they didn't go away. >> no, they didn't. they were too busy enjoying themselves loving every second of their disgusting behavior. the school said an investigation has been launched. they should be rooted out and severely punchment. parents everywhere have been reacting with shock and who are or to the video and with money. to send her on a luxury vacation has raised more than $250,000 online. an incredible just ter. the money won't change very much about what happened or heal the scars. she deserves more.